Wednesday, 6 April 2011

Monday Discussion Chat log 4th April 2011

What can we do in sl AND rl to demonstrate alternatives to austerity measures?

Present: Agnes Sharples; Utsche Kira; Demo Ho; anon; Smily; Lapsus Weinstein; Chelsea Louloudi; Pip Torok;

[06:01] Agnes S. : come on in, have a drink and join the discussion
[06:03] Agnes S. : are you in sl uncut group?
[06:03] Utsche Kira: whats uncut
[06:03] Agnes S. : where are you from Utsche?
[06:04] Utsche Kira: in RL, you mean?
[06:04] Agnes S. : yes:)
[06:04] Utsche Kira: slovenia
[06:04] Utsche Kira: you?

[06:04] Agnes S. : oh cool, one of my best friends in sl are from there
[06:04] Agnes S. : im norwegian
[06:09] Agnes S. : so the discussion today is on the topic of what we can do in sl AND rl to demonstrate alternatives to austerity measures
[06:09] Agnes S. : any thoughts of that?
[06:09] Lapsus Weinstein: very interesting topic
[06:09] Agnes S. : yay! i think it is too

[06:10] Smily: Yes
[06:10] Agnes S. : well, my thoughts about it is to first: talk
[06:10] Lapsus Weinstein: if I don't crash,great lag today

[06:12] Smily: Salaam. Ruz bekheyr. Shoma chetorin?
[06:14] Agnes S. : so, i am interested in your thoughts on how we can fight austerity measures and alternatives to it
[06:14] Agnes S. : are anyone of you in sl uncut group?
[06:14] Smily: Never heard of it
[06:15] Agnes S. :
[06:15] Agnes S. :
[06:16] Utsche Kira: what do you mean by alternatives? what should be done by politicians?
[06:17] Demo Ho: and yes in the Netherlands austerity is a big issue
[06:17] Agnes S. : what should be done by politicians, sure, but also how we can affect it
[06:17] Agnes S. : here too
[06:17] Smily: Well, here in the U.S., politicians should pay a bit less attention to lobbyists and pundits

[06:17] Demo Ho: now we have most right wing government ever since the nazis left
[06:17] Agnes S. : i think all over, at least europe and us: because of the finance crisis
[06:18] Lapsus Weinstein: yes worldwide
[06:18] Utsche Kira: well, in slovenia, actually, we have a left government, but it's acting the same as if it would be right
[06:18] Smily: Dang
[06:18] Agnes S. : same here Utsche
[06:18] Demo Ho: fundamentalist capitalism = as we see today taking over, = permament finance crisis imho
[06:18] Lapsus Weinstein: italy too, left is same as right
[06:19] Lapsus Weinstein: mafias and lobbies
[06:19] Agnes S. : yes
[06:19] Smily: corporate-funded think tanks
[06:19] Lapsus Weinstein: micro lobbies too
[06:19] Demo Ho: What countries are you all from?
[06:19] Smily: USA
[06:20] Lapsus Weinstein: they grow in the little towns, in local administrations
[06:20] Agnes S. : we are all in a system
[06:21] Lapsus Weinstein: we live as in the 1600
[06:21] Utsche Kira: so, my thoughts on politicians: they simply shouldn't make cuts on the poor, but take from ultra-rich bastards, but as this seems highly unlikely to happen, the only thing we can do is starting with various direct actions, i would say
[06:21] Lapsus Weinstein: before the light age
[06:22] Agnes S. : and now the working class and the weakest in society have to pay for the rich game of capitalism, caused by the crisis
[06:22] Agnes S. : various actions is good Utsche
[06:23] Demo Ho: Utsche you are in Slovenia?
[06:23] Utsche Kira: yes
[06:23] Agnes S. : what can you do in your community?

[06:23] Demo Ho: cool
[06:23] Lapsus Weinstein: a dangerous game, they act like dinosaurs
[06:23] Smily: Damned if I know
[06:23] Lapsus Weinstein: they'll eat one each other
[06:24] Lapsus Weinstein: uk ppl should be expert
[06:24] Lapsus Weinstein: it's like at the robi hood time
[06:24] Demo Ho: Lapsus: Where are you from?
[06:24] Agnes S. : i think awareness and education is a keyword here:)
[06:24] Lapsus Weinstein: Italy, near Milano, north
[06:25] Demo Ho: great global meeting!
[06:25] Agnes S. : indeed
[06:25] Agnes S. : no Italy is really corrupt
[06:25] Lapsus Weinstein: we have the most fascist political class

[06:25] Agnes S. : terrible
[06:25] Lapsus Weinstein: after the true fascism
[06:25] Lapsus Weinstein: in the richest side of the country
[06:26] Demo Ho: (note: i avoid the word INTERNATIONAL, it implies to recognize the concept of nations) :)

[06:26] Demo Ho: i mean it is cool we are from all over
[06:26] Lapsus Weinstein: agree
[06:26] Agnes S. : yes: diversity is good
[06:27] Demo Ho: So here people dealing directly with the nations Norway, US, Netherlands, Italy, Slovenia
[06:27] Agnes S. : and SL:P

[06:27] Demo Ho: haha
[06:27] Agnes S. : uniting us
[06:27] Demo Ho: SL is not a nation, it is a product
[06:27] Lapsus Weinstein: and with actual war, africa
[06:27] Agnes S. : which is great
[06:28] Demo Ho: But in the globalized world, products can become more powerfull then nations
[06:28] Lapsus Weinstein: they actually are
[06:28] Agnes S. : i think they allready are
[06:28] Demo Ho: SL probably has the financial turnover of a small third worlds country: and Facebook probably has the financial turnover of a small first world country...
[06:29] Pip Torok: SL is a profitable enterprise for LL and a collective delusion for the rest of us

[06:29] Demo Ho: hehe delusion
[06:30] Agnes S. : well, a little off topic, but yeah, then again, if we are smart we get the best out of sl :)
[06:30] Smily: ^^

[06:30] Pip Torok: but it does ground us into who we really are imnsho
[06:30] Lapsus Weinstein: I agree
[06:30] Demo Ho: yes if SL was a country, it is a financially successful enlightened dictatorship ;)
[06:31] Utsche Kira: so it is pretty much the same as RL
[06:31] Pip Torok: with the exception of CDS bte!

[06:31] Smily: Like Iran under Reza Shah?
[06:31] Pip Torok: CDS is SL's oldest democracy
[06:31] Pip Torok: no!
[06:31] Agnes S. : CDS?
[06:31] Demo Ho: well SL also had Austerity from LL
[06:31] Pip Torok: Confederation of Democratic Sims
[06:31] Agnes S. : ah ty
[06:32] Demo Ho: like non profit organisations don’t get a discount anymore for sim tier
[06:32] Pip Torok: yup ... there are 5 sims in it
[06:32] Demo Ho: DRPG? ( Democracy Role Play Gaming) in SL? ;)
[06:32] Pip Torok: but i agree .. its off topic
[06:33] Pip Torok: except were augmentalist not roleplaying
[06:33] Lapsus Weinstein: well it could be an interesting game
[06:33] Pip Torok: we govern ourselves and make the decisions redatring our sims
[06:33] Agnes Sharple: My suggestion to the protests is to engage in such local policies, use twitter, SL and other social media for all it's worth
[06:33] Lapsus Weinstein: we pay for LL service, so we can use it as we like
[06:34] Lapsus Weinstein: or better we should be free to do so
[06:34] Pip Torok: quite so Lapsius

[06:34] Pip Torok: ... or MAKE ourselves free
[06:34] Utsche Kira: yeah you pay for service, but the service itself might be limited
[06:35] Agnes S. : well i think that is a great discussion for some other time :): let LL be LL right now
[06:35] Pip Torok gave you Citizen Bill (October 2010) updated.
[06:36] Agnes S. : ty pip
[06:36] Pip Torok: :)

[06:36] Pip Torok: imo we need to see what caused the crunch that forces us to be austere
[06:37] Demo Ho: i havent payed LL one cent ever
[06:37] Lapsus Weinstein: fear, terror
[06:37] Pip Torok: lucky you Demo! :)

[06:37] Demo Ho: nothing lucky, it is a choice
[06:37] Demo Ho: :P
[06:37] Pip Torok: ah ... i understand ...
[06:37] Agnes S. : :)
[06:38] Utsche Kira: do you think some sort of action, say, against austerity in RL, could start in SL, or could SL be used only as a form of coordinating?
[06:38] Pip Torok: i think the latter utsche
[06:38] Chelsea Louloudi: Hi Demo :)
[06:38] Chelsea Louloudi: Hi Utsche :)
[06:38] Lapsus Weinstein: a recent sample was for egypt
[06:38] Agnes S. : i think SL can be used for communication across borders and inspire ppl to engage rl
[06:38] Pip Torok: its a grand means to unite ppl is SL ..
[06:39] Lapsus Weinstein: can we say how sl did work in that situation?
[06:39] Demo Ho: so how does Austerity relate to SL?
[06:39] Lapsus Weinstein: compared with twitter or facebook?
[06:39] Demo Ho: and how can we discuss Austerity, while it is so different practice depending what country you are?

[06:39] Pip Torok: only that SL helps those victims of austerity to combi, and plan
[06:39] Pip Torok: combine

[06:39] Demo Ho: or do we discuss the concept of Austerity
[06:40] Lapsus Weinstein: yes
[06:40] Agnes S. : no, its not different Demo, its the same pretty much all over
[06:40] Lapsus Weinstein: more austerity
[06:40] Lapsus Weinstein: more need to cooperate
[06:40] Pip Torok: suggest we discuss austerity

[06:40] Demo Ho: and can anarchists accept government austerity? :)
[06:40] Pip Torok: no way .. by definition, demo
[06:41] Demo Ho: i disagree Agnes, the USA is VERY different the most European Countries in government funding: so the austerity also is very different

[06:41] Utsche Kira: if anarchist can’t accept government, then it's hard to accept government austerity :)
[06:41] Pip Torok: my guess is that we have this concept of ownership, and ppl owing money to others ...
[06:41] Demo Ho: right Utsche, thats my point
[06:42] Pip Torok: and when there is collectively "too much" "debt" we have the crisis
[06:42] Pip Torok: so ppl become afraid ... and will cling to what they think they own
[06:42] Lapsus Weinstein: it could be possible that also the US idea is an abstraction today
[06:42] Agnes S. : another question would be, are we witnessing the beginning of the end of capitalism
[06:42] Demo Ho: how you mean that Lapsus?
[06:43] Agnes S. : as a system
[06:43] Pip Torok: yes ... another delusion ... believed in by the RL
[06:43] Utsche Kira: i think it's more like capitalism is showing us what it can do
[06:44] Demo Ho: i'm afraid not Agnes, the contrairy: we are witnessing fundementalist capitalism showing its true face more every day, i'm afraid to say
[06:44] Utsche Kira: don’t believe its gonna stop by itself

[06:44] Agnes S. : and who is capitalism?
[06:44] Pip Torok: just wish it wd stop showing us!)
[06:44] Agnes S. : i believe capitalism will in the end stop itself
[06:44] Demo Ho: hmm: how you see that?
[06:45] Pip Torok: it’s very simple : from those who can contribute ... to those in need
[06:45] Agnes Sharple: capitalism as a system stands or falls on its own, it will collapse one day
[06:45] Lapsus Weinstein: so
[06:46] Agnes Sharple: you are free two leavening Whenever you just demo
[06:46] Pip Torok: i wish this meeting wd outlast capitalism ... :9
[06:46] Lapsus Weinstein: sl is a simulator of capitalism

[06:46] Pip Torok: disagree
[06:46] Demo Ho: and then when capitalism collapses, what next? anarchy? ( = not anarchism)
[06:46] Pip Torok: SL is a simulation of our perception of RL
[06:46] Lapsus Weinstein: how Pip?
[06:47] Agnes Sharple: planned economy is an option
[06:47] Utsche Kira: of course it will collapse, but people benefiting the most from it will do the best they can to defend status quo, which is taking as much as they can
[06:47] Pip Torok: well we see a simulacrum of our RL perception through this screen ...

... and call it SL

[06:47] Demo Ho: SL is part of capitalism, that’s why it works so well almost seemless within our western society, with its Linden $ economy
[06:47] Lapsus Weinstein: indeed but
[06:47] Agnes S. : at least nobody is forcing you to be a part of SL:)
[06:48] Lapsus Weinstein: as any other computer software atm
[06:48] Demo Ho: right Agnes
[06:48] Lapsus Weinstein: it's buggy
[06:48] Lapsus Weinstein: more
[06:48] Agnes S. : but you are, from the day you’re born, forced to be a part of our capitalistic system
[06:48] Pip Torok: LL have what they call a "business model" around which SL is designed
[06:48] Lapsus Weinstein: since we live inside it
[06:48] Demo Ho: everything is buggy, first life is buggy too :P

[06:48] Lapsus Weinstein: we can play it with other rules
[06:49] Pip Torok: and being a "business model" it is embedded in capitalism ... of necessity
[06:49] Demo Ho: take it or leave it (iow kill yourself)
[06:49] Demo Ho: ;)
[06:49] Lapsus Weinstein: indeed pip but what I mean is that what do you imagine after the end of capitalism?

[06:49] Demo Ho: yes embedded was the word i was looking for, thanks Pip
[06:50] Agnes Sharple: it's not just about themselves, it is about us as a whole, as human beings, that we should not accept any injustice, even if it does not affect us, it's called solidarity
[06:50] Demo Ho: :)
[06:50] Utsche Kira: :)
[06:50] Pip Torok: the trouble about being embedded in any system is that we cannot imagine what its like when we're outside it
[06:50] Lapsus Weinstein: so we need a simulator too since without it we aren't able to play any game
[06:51] Utsche Kira: thats true, but actually it does affect you too - your tea is cheap cuz its made by someone who doesnt get paid well
[06:51] Pip Torok: for example no-one could have imagined the events in Soviet Russia after 1917]

[06:51] Demo Ho: right Utsche
[06:52] Pip Torok: what we CAN do is to watch those who make decisions _like a hawk_ ...!
[06:52] Lapsus Weinstein: no one can imagine now the world after the beginning of this africa risiko#
[06:53] Pip Torok: and make sure they employ at least some humanity
[06:53] Pip Torok: true Lapsus ... likewise Libya
[06:53] Lapsus Weinstein: and I'm not so sure that US are ready challenging with it : meantime europe is coming back to nationalism

[06:53] Utsche Kira: well, Pip, Mikhail Bakunin actually did say what wa going to happen if they insist on marxist dictature of proletariat :)
[06:53] Pip Torok: now THAT cd be a solution ... the way of the egyptians
[06:54] Agnes S. : :(

[06:54] Lapsus Weinstein: and imperialism
[06:54] Pip Torok: what did he say utsche?
[06:55] Utsche Kira: that it will bring very big shit and rise of one-man dictatorships
[06:55] Pip Torok: very prescient of him!!! :|
[06:55] Utsche Kira: promising utopias if people only sacrifice a bit

[06:55] Lapsus Weinstein: maybe again a german one? : look at germany very carefully
[06:56] Pip Torok: i doubt if it will germany ... another country more likely
[06:56] Lapsus Weinstein: germany and russia
[06:56] Chelsea Louloudi: I was thinking the same....people there won't stand for it
[06:57] Lapsus Weinstein: are standing waiting where the game is going on

[06:57] Utsche Kira: but the same thing that was being promsied by then leftist dictators in now being promised in after-socialists countries - prosperity then if we now sacrifice a little and make some cuts
[06:57] Lapsus Weinstein: that is very curious
[06:57] Lapsus Weinstein: indeed
[06:58] Agnes Sharple: yes, but who is it who have to sacrifice? those who already have little from before!
[06:58] Lapsus Weinstein: Putin and Russia are speaking as if now Russia were still soviet union
[06:58] Pip Torok: its a potent message, Utsche ... and always has been for miserable hopeless and hungry ppl!

[06:58] Utsche Kira: indeed
[06:59] Pip Torok: like a drowning man clutching at straws
[06:59] Agnes S. : and who’s asses are saved in this?
[06:59] Utsche Kira: only the sides have shifted, before left was utopian, now the right is
[06:59] Utsche Kira: rich of course
[06:59] Pip Torok: imo ... "left" and "right" ay become redundant

[07:00] Pip Torok: quite, Chelsea!
[07:00] Agnes S. : yes Chelsea
[07:00] Utsche Kira: yes, indeed
[07:00] Lapsus Weinstein: ehe

[07:00] Lapsus Weinstein: but: they are fighting for Africa; and oil is finishing so: the game is near to its end, someway uranium too
[07:01] Pip Torok: mmm I wouldnt hold my breath, Lapsus
[07:01] Utsche Kira: but do you believe that capitalism cant survive whitout oil?
[07:02] Lapsus Weinstein: it could
[07:02] Agnes S. : the oil is about to end, all the values are just paper, being moved back and forth
[07:02] Demo Ho: yes capitalism doesn’t need oil

[07:02] Lapsus Weinstein: indeed Agnes
[07:02] Pip Torok: i think the whole of humanity cannot survive unless we slim down our population
[07:02] Demo Ho: So how Pip?
[07:02] Pip Torok: ... before "nature" slims it down for us
[07:02] Utsche Kira: think so?
[07:02] Lapsus Weinstein: that is a big question
[07:03] Chelsea Louloudi: How would you slim down population?
[07:03] Demo Ho: yes i wonder
[07:03] Pip Torok: yes ... very serious about that
[07:03] Demo Ho: make fucking illegal?

[07:03] Demo Ho: ;)
[07:03] Lapsus Weinstein: it quite simple
[07:03] Utsche Kira: but there are enough resources for everyone, the allocation is not really equalibrical

[07:03] Lapsus Weinstein: no food
[07:03] Pip Torok: every woman bears one surviving child for 5 generations
[07:03] Lapsus Weinstein: no water: aids and so on: warstsunamis
[07:04] Chelsea Louloudi: exactly Utsche....
[07:04] Demo Ho: Pip: and how to impose this?
[07:04] Lapsus Weinstein: earthquakes
[07:04] Pip Torok: wish I knew!
[07:04] Agnes S. : nuclear disasters...
[07:04] Demo Ho: HAARP?
[07:04] Lapsus Weinstein: yes
[07:04] Agnes S. : pollution

[07:04] Chelsea Louloudi: there's plenty of food... that's also being controlled. Food aid is also big business
[07:05] Utsche Kira: if someone buys a main source of water somewhere in, say Kalahari, and then builds a pool around with fences, then for sure people will get thirsty
[07:05] Pip Torok: yes ... but when the population of China have the same eating habits as the "west" ...?

[07:05] Demo Ho: Conspiracy theories state HAARP is being developed to slim down earth population...
[07:05] Utsche Kira: that's another example
[07:05] Lapsus Weinstein: a few ones
[07:06] Chelsea Louloudi: You know, US has the monopoly on shipping food aid....75% has to be shipped in US bottoms...they use this to dump their agricultural surplus
[07:06] Lapsus Weinstein: also if 'a few' means millions
[07:06] Agnes S. : i didnt know that Chelsea! not that it was 75%
[07:07] Pip Torok: to answer you demo ... either we do it, or "nature" does it for us ...
[07:07] Lapsus Weinstein: my question is: since we are in sl
[07:07] Chelsea Louloudi: may be more than 75...I'll find the link sometime about it...huge business

[07:07] Lapsus Weinstein: how is possible
[07:08] Agnes S. : id appreciate that chelsea
[07:08] Lapsus Weinstein: that world governments cannot: control anything
[07:08] Demo Ho: Pip: thats no answer : HOW we do it?
[07:08] Lapsus Weinstein: when they have the best hardware and software simulators of about all the sceneries: so are they using it?

[07:09] Pip Torok: define "we" Demo ... it could be done by wards and famines ... or else the climate-change will ensure there is not enough food ...
[07:09] Utsche Kira: world's governments cannot control, because they are blinded by profit, if even education becomes profit making thing, it's hard to think beyond profit, then
[07:09] Pip Torok: wards=wars
[07:10] Demo Ho: well the CIA does create fake Facebook and Twitter bot profiles for propaganda...

[07:10] Lapsus Weinstein: but for making profit they need software
[07:10] Demo Ho: no joke...
[07:10] Pip Torok: and they see things in the short term Utsche
[07:10] Demo Ho: hehe
[07:10] Lapsus Weinstein: it's the same game I'm curious about
[07:11] Agnes S. : a lot of interesting thoughts here today
[07:11] Lapsus Weinstein: if governments are blind
[07:11] Lapsus Weinstein: ppl controlling the game aren't blind
[07:12] Lapsus Weinstein: who are they?
[07:12] Lapsus Weinstein: and where

[07:12] Utsche Kira: i don't believe there is like a group of 100 people that controls everything
[07:12] Pip Torok: dont agree ... they are _less_ blind but not all-seeing
[07:12] Utsche Kira: it's the idea: ideology that makes people blind
[07:13] Agnes Sharple: before closing, I want you to think about what you can do in both rl and sl, how you can engage and protest against the measures settes underway in many parts of the world

[07:13] Pip Torok: right!
[07:13] Lapsus Weinstein: I mean aren't blind using any computer model for simulating the best profit situation there must be someone: or not?
[07:13] Agnes Sharple: there are some local groups to engage in? protests?
[07:14] Lapsus Weinstein: I'm thinking to Mc Namara
[07:14] Utsche Kira: acting as we are free, where one can, is an option
[07:15] Demo Ho: i think it is VERY important the protests are reported about without lies, like in the media: any protests

[07:15] Utsche Kira: making aware that selling products in SL is only perpetuating the story,
[07:15] Pip Torok: true ... (Pip remembers Maggie in 1984)
[07:15] Agnes Sharple: Internet gives us all an opportunity to reach out to a much greater extent than before, we should use that opportunity
[07:15] Demo Ho: and to think about what to do about corporate media lying or ignoring protests
[07:15] Demo Ho (from english): og å tenke på hva de skal gjøre med corporate media liggende eller ignorere protester

[07:15] Utsche Kira: of course
[07:15] Lapsus Weinstein: agree agnes
[07:16] Demo Ho: ye Agnes, thats why we are here
[07:16] Demo Ho: :)

[07:16] Agnes S. : so, use it for all its worth, id say :)
[07:16] Lapsus Weinstein: we should helping ppl filtering informations, egthe main qeustion is how LL control what we plan: in which measure are we free: expressing our opinions: till now it seems so

[07:17] Demo Ho: how you mean Lapsus?
[07:18] Demo Ho: you are worried LL policies will change freedom of speech within SL?
[07:18] Pip Torok: the answer is very simple Lapsus ...
[07:18] Lapsus Weinstein: and?
[07:18] Pip Torok: LL constrains any sim to be OWNED by one account-holder who pays "tier" to them: and the account-holder can only be one individual ... not a collective: so the basis of any society is compromised from the start
[07:20] Lapsus Weinstein: we saw an example for egypt sim
[07:20] Pip Torok: .. and turns every sim into a ruler and a bunch of ruled people who pay tier to the "ruler"

[07:21] Lapsus Weinstein: in that case LL was on the same line of rebels, CIA, Obama and so on
[07:21] Agnes S. : luckily, unlike rl, nobody is forcing you to stay here :)
[07:21] Demo Ho: Lapsus????
[07:21] Lapsus Weinstein: as Google too
[07:21] Pip Torok: quite so, Lapsus
[07:21] Chelsea Louloudi: :D

[07:22] Demo Ho: well isnt the same issue with domain names?
[07:22] Demo Ho: on the web?
[07:22] Lapsus Weinstein: at least that agnes: it's not a matrix in that sense: but
[07:22] Demo Ho: right Agnes

[07:22] Pip Torok: true Demo ... but then who decides on the names?
[07:22] Pip Torok (from english): sant Demo ... men da som bestemmer rthe navn?
[07:22] Utsche Kira: thanks, Agnes, that was good
[07:22] Utsche Kira (from english): takk, Agnes, det var bra
[07:22] Lapsus Weinstein: it's a matrix if and when you plan to use it
[07:22] Chelsea Louloudi: Food aid link

[07:23] Lapsus Weinstein: as you proposed in your topic
[07:23] Demo Ho: Pip: you have a point indeed, but isn’t that easily solved by using OpenGrid?
[07:23] Agnes S. : ty chelsea
[07:24] Chelsea Louloudi: yw Agnes

[07:24] Demo Ho: why own property anyway in SL?
[07:24] Demo Ho: why own a sim?
[07:24] Chelsea Louloudi: sorry about my connection issues
[07:24] Demo Ho: in SL?
[07:24] Anon: you can't own property in sl - you rent server space...
[07:24] Agnes S. : no worries chelsea, thats sl :)
[07:25] Demo Ho: well 'own' as in registered tier responsible person

[07:25] Utsche Kira: maybe, then, we should find a way to squat in sl :)
[07:25] Demo Ho: so then i rephrase my question: Why rent in SL?: find a way??: its easy! i squat all the time
[07:25] Anon: become a hobo..

[07:25] Demo Ho: since i joined SL i am squatting: here
[07:25] Anon: the hobos own a sim paid for out of donations
[07:25] Utsche Kira: yeah, but can you create things then?

[07:26] Anon: pretty unique in sl I think
[07:26] Demo Ho: never payed 1L$ for land: yes
[07:26] Agnes S. : like sl left unity Anon :)
[07:26] Demo Ho: of course: there is no point in squatting if you cannot rez :)
[07:26] Anon: oh sl left unity own a whole sim as well? : impressive
[07:27] Agnes S. : i have to ask if all of you agree to put this discussion on the blog

[07:27] Pip Torok: thks for your input ... and visit CDS by searching "democracy"
[07:28] Agnes S. : :)
[07:28] Demo Ho: i agree to publish this meeting chatlog including my name, but i doubt what it is useful for...
[07:29] Agnes S. : we have a policy of putting the discussion up in the blog, so that those who didn’t get here have a chance to see what we discussed:)

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