Thursday, 12 May 2011

I wanna live forever..! - Discussion chatlog

Present: Jeff Hema, Plot Tracer, Merriam Galaxy, Josiane Llewellyn, Shiaida Palianta, Agnes Sharple, Loty Doty, Khannea Suntzu, Trent Infinity, joji Shilova, YT Upsilon (Lynne), Trent Infinity; Sophiekittycat Resident; Ataraxia Azemus; josjoha Resident;

A bit of a different one this week: If nano technology was released that meant that everyone in the world had the potential to live forever without their body aging beyond the physicality of 25 (and be able to reverse aging in those over 25) – how would this change the world order/ social system/ human ambition/ecology?

[2011/05/12 07:05] IM: Sparkz Munro: you might find this of interest assuming you dont already know it :)

[2011/05/12 07:11] Plot Tracer: beer pies and revolution is all we offer :)
[2011/05/12 07:11] Plot Tracer: ok
[2011/05/12 07:11] Josiane Llewellyn: beer pies :)
[2011/05/12 07:11] Plot Tracer: before we begin the discussion, can i point out a couple of things of interest
[2011/05/12 07:12] Josiane Llewellyn: my first time here
[2011/05/12 07:12] Plot Tracer: those of you who haven’t been here before, this is sl left unity land - a group set up nearly years. we run discussions regularly on different topics
[2011/05/12 07:12] Plot Tracer: some of our past chatlogs can be found on (along with other information about the group)

[2011/05/12 07:12] Khannea Suntzu: left unity?
[2011/05/12 07:13] Plot Tracer: yes - left unity.

[2011/05/12 07:13] Plot Tracer: a couple more things - one is that we are running a fundraiser here on 18 june to raise money for RAWA

[2011/05/12 07:13] Plot Tracer: details again are on our site -

[2011/05/12 07:13] Plot Tracer: and lastly - this venue and the stage area is open for people to perform etc. we have a new events manager, who is here - merriam galaxy. if u are a performer, please contact her about a slot.

[2011/05/12 07:14] Merriam Galaxy coughs

[2011/05/12 07:14] Plot Tracer: ok. Today’s topic was opened to more groups than purely left groups because it is a strange one!

[2011/05/12 07:15] Plot Tracer: oh - by the way - when we finish is everyone ok for us to place the chatlog on the website? If u want to remain anon, please im me

[2011/05/12 07:16] Plot Tracer: todays topic - If nano technology was released that meant that everyone in the world had the potential to live forever without their body aging beyond the physicality of 25 (and be able to reverse aging in those over 25) – how would this change the world order/ social system/ human ambition/ecology?

[2011/05/12 07:16] Plot Tracer: would anyone like to start us off?

[2011/05/12 07:17] Josiane Llewellyn: hm well we would need space habs for people to migrate to.
[2011/05/12 07:17] Khannea Suntzu: pension system, expectations, economy, humans actually interested in the future, things moving slower or actually faster...? more risky or actually more cautious? No, population growth would no increase very fast at first.
[2011/05/12 07:18] Khannea Suntzu: Eventually it would, but the increase would only be very little more than current.
[2011/05/12 07:18] Josiane Llewellyn: Oh?
[2011/05/12 07:18] Merriam Galaxy: how,khannea?
[2011/05/12 07:18] Agnes Sharple: you would need a ppls profile or something to tell the difference between ppl who are actually 25 and ppl who are 225 :P

[2011/05/12 07:19] Khannea Suntzu: Yes, pure arithmetic. The amount of people benefiting from this (i.e. those who would NOT die would all be a demographic by and large born in the 1940s-1950s. We used to have a LOT less people back then.

[2011/05/12 07:19] Plot Tracer: but back then there was a huge sudden increase in population, right, khan?
[2011/05/12 07:19] Plot Tracer: soz - in the 1950s -60s
[2011/05/12 07:20] YT Upsilon: Baby boomers.
[2011/05/12 07:20] Plot Tracer: what about resources? how would it effect those and the management of those?
[2011/05/12 07:20] Khannea Suntzu: Yep. But the consequence is that if we had these treatments, we would need some kind of controls for new influx pretty soon. Birth quota. But to put it bluntly - the damage is alreadyu done. There are far more births than people dying.
[2011/05/12 07:20] YT Upsilon: You'd have a choice - live forever but have no kids, or reproduce and take the pill of death.
[2011/05/12 07:21] Agnes Sharple: without the body aging; does that mean there will be no injuries either?
[2011/05/12 07:21] Khannea Suntzu: Lynne, and you would enforce this how in a democracy? How would you get this idea elected?

[2011/05/12 07:21] YT Upsilon: Instant repair - if you can fix the damage done by aging.
[2011/05/12 07:21] YT Upsilon: Simple - control the nanotech.
[2011/05/12 07:21] Agnes Sharple: uhm, i like elder men :P haha
[2011/05/12 07:22] YT Upsilon: Democracy would become meaningless.
[2011/05/12 07:22] Agnes Sharple: everybody being 25 would be a nightmare to me

[2011/05/12 07:22] YT Upsilon: If everyone lives forever- Me too Agnes.
[2011/05/12 07:22] Khannea Suntzu: I don't take well to claims of people who dismiss democracy.
[2011/05/12 07:22] Plot Tracer: well, agnes, this question is based on real scientific pronouncements - that most disease will be treatable as will most injury (ther ewill be untreatable injuries also - brain injuries etc will sometimes be beyond reach) - but the scientists say within 25 years, we will have the technology to allow people to stop aging and in fact reverse the process
[2011/05/12 07:22] YT Upsilon: What democracy?

[2011/05/12 07:22] YT Upsilon: As a Brit I can tell you it's a myth.
[2011/05/12 07:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, these advances will eventually be democratically distributed
[2011/05/12 07:23] YT Upsilon: We haven't achieved it - yet.
[2011/05/12 07:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: Like any other advances in tech; it's the short term that is worrisome

[2011/05/12 07:23] YT Upsilon: In the short term, people like me will be long gone before they give me the tech.
[2011/05/12 07:23] Josiane Llewellyn: Yes not everyone would be able to have it as soon as it is developed.
[2011/05/12 07:23] Agnes Sharple: i don’t think the human brain, not to talk about humanity would be able to deal with a scenario like that

[2011/05/12 07:23] Khannea Suntzu: Plus I don't see why this treatment would be obligatory. Many would refuse it. This has been studied - the rate ' of 'defection', i.e. people who would REFUSE life extension or rejuvenation treatments would be in the high 50% ranges for some countries.
[2011/05/12 07:24] Khannea Suntzu: Plus some people would 'age a little', then reset to youth, and jokjo back and forth.

[2011/05/12 07:24] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, they would make it mandatory in order to stop only an elite from hving it
[2011/05/12 07:24] YT Upsilon: Khannea - Initially yes, but then as it became "the norm" the take up would be higher.

[2011/05/12 07:24] YT Upsilon: The main problem would probably be an increase in mental illness.
[2011/05/12 07:25] Khannea Suntzu: Sure. But it's a free world. Everyone has a right to die if they preer.
[2011/05/12 07:25] Khannea Suntzu: prefer
[2011/05/12 07:25] YT Upsilon: Not in the UK they don't.

[2011/05/12 07:25] Plot Tracer: ok- how would thinking change - how would the demographics and political landscape change when people have a memory reach of 200... 300 years?
[2011/05/12 07:25] Khannea Suntzu: Odd. I'd rather see mental illness decrease sharply.
[2011/05/12 07:25] YT Upsilon: We have to go to Switzerland for that.
[2011/05/12 07:25] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, you're talking how it's supposed to be

[2011/05/12 07:25] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, lol
[2011/05/12 07:26] Khannea Suntzu: Let's just see what happens in a single century when this technology emerges.
[2011/05/12 07:26] Khannea Suntzu: A lot can and will happen in that century.

[2011/05/12 07:26] YT Upsilon: Nature will probably find a way past it. Nano viruses to kill Nano tech.
[2011/05/12 07:26] Khannea Suntzu:

[2011/05/12 07:27] Plot Tracer: If people suddenly have infinite age - how does that affect our finite resources and their use/ distribution?

[2011/05/12 07:27] Rhiannon Dragoone: Plot, well, we would have to either limit population or go into space
[2011/05/12 07:27] YT Upsilon: Hopefully we'll be older - and wiser.
[2011/05/12 07:27] Khannea Suntzu: As if we don't already have a total catastrophe in resource use.

[2011/05/12 07:27] YT Upsilon: Maybe a bit more long-termism, rather than short term consumerism.
[2011/05/12 07:28] Khannea Suntzu: Longer life would be a total blessing. People would actually care about the future.

[2011/05/12 07:28] YT Upsilon: You might think twice about destroying a place, if you figure you've got to stay there.
[2011/05/12 07:28] YT Upsilon: Plus - we would definitely start leaving.

[2011/05/12 07:28] Khannea Suntzu: Right now people anticipate dying and want to consume as much as possible before the slam the door behind them,
[2011/05/12 07:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynee, works well with corporations, which are already immortal. lol

[2011/05/12 07:29] YT Upsilon: Immortal or immoral?
[2011/05/12 07:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, both. lol
[2011/05/12 07:29] Khannea Suntzu: Like vampires. Both.
[2011/05/12 07:29] YT Upsilon: Corporations have no idea of long-termism. They rarely think beyond the next P&L sheet.

[2011/05/12 07:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, that's my point; long life doesn't mean thinking long term
[2011/05/12 07:29] YT Upsilon: I blame the shareholders.
[2011/05/12 07:30] Khannea Suntzu: Corporations are not immortal. They anticipate dying in a matter of years.

[2011/05/12 07:30] YT Upsilon: No - long life means you will experience the blackouts / riots / starvation - there's a difference.

[2011/05/12 07:30] Rhiannon Dragoone: The shareholders do have to take responsibility
[2011/05/12 07:30] YT Upsilon: And the consumers.

[2011/05/12 07:31] YT Upsilon: There are very few people on this earth who bare little or no responsibilities - she says typing on her Sony Vaio, in the comfort of her nice warm home.
[2011/05/12 07:31] Khannea Suntzu: Shareholders are parasites on the corporate system. Shareholders can leave if they don't like a corporation. This makes corporations compete in ruthlessness.
[2011/05/12 07:31] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, lol

[2011/05/12 07:31] YT Upsilon: It depends on the shareholder. Like most things.
I'm sure there are some nice shareholders out there, who invest in things they truly believe in.
[2011/05/12 07:32] Agnes Sharple: I’m not sure, but i kind of suspect humanity to come up with e method to kill each other still

[2011/05/12 07:32] YT Upsilon: The main problem is pension funds.
[2011/05/12 07:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: I think the question is, though, Lynne, whether longevity will make a difference

[2011/05/12 07:32] YT Upsilon: So - the main problem is pensioners. LOL
[2011/05/12 07:32] YT Upsilon: Yes, of course it would - positive or negative (probably both).
[2011/05/12 07:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: Pension funds draw from resources; we are just going to have to come up with replicators; all there is to it

[2011/05/12 07:32] YT Upsilon: New opportunities for new problems.
[2011/05/12 07:33] YT Upsilon: But the replicators will eat us!
[2011/05/12 07:33] YT Upsilon: I've watched Stargate.
[2011/05/12 07:33] Agnes Sharple: no need for pension if ppl are at the state of 25 forever is it?
[2011/05/12 07:33] Khannea Suntzu: Penson funds won't last ten, twnety more years. It's ending already. Nobody here under 35 should ever expect to receive a pension if you live in a western country. It's a scam.
[2011/05/12 07:33] YT Upsilon: It's a nice little Ponsi scheme that has reached its peak.

[2011/05/12 07:33] Khannea Suntzu: In fact pension funds would be a nice box of money we could harvest to fund research into life extension.

[2011/05/12 07:34] Plot Tracer: so - will society change from 2% owning 90%+ of resources ?

[2011/05/12 07:34] YT Upsilon: Hey! Don't you go raiding my pension pot!;-)

[2011/05/12 07:34] YT Upsilon: Doubtful Plot.

[2011/05/12 07:34] Plot Tracer: will it only be 2% of people who can live in comfort while the rest of the long livers become drones?

[2011/05/12 07:34] Khannea Suntzu: It's not my idea actually. Let me show you this video.

[2011/05/12 07:34] YT Upsilon: I'm already a drone.

[2011/05/12 07:35] Khannea Suntzu:

[2011/05/12 07:35] Khannea Suntzu: That is a video nade by a subsidiary of the Methuselah foundation.
[2011/05/12 07:36] Khannea Suntzu: When I was in Milan I asked Aubrey about it, and he regarded it as a side project.

[2011/05/12 07:37] Khannea Suntzu: They more or less *argue* here to save gobal economies by using life extension.
[2011/05/12 07:37] Khannea Suntzu: I think they have a point.

[2011/05/12 07:38] YT Upsilon: Well, the alternative is leaving people out on the ice - so yes, let's go with longevity - coz I hate the cold.

[2011/05/12 07:38] YT Upsilon: Children are what we were, old people are what we will all become (with a bit of luck). ;)

[2011/05/12 07:39] Plot Tracer: ok - we seem to be speaking about this under a retention of current thinking- current economic organisation. Can the current "growth" economy support life? do you think people may change this "growth" model to a sustainable one if they realise their infinite longevity is threatened?

[2011/05/12 07:39] Khannea Suntzu: Well if I can, I will take whatever means I can to live forever, in an acceptable physical and mental state. Nothing about extinction is acceptable to me.

[2011/05/12 07:40] Plot Tracer: i'm with u there khan!

[2011/05/12 07:40] Agnes Sharple: i prefer to die :)

[2011/05/12 07:40] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, life extension, by itself doesn't create new problems; as long as we have productive and fair resourse management, encourage creativity in people. Erm...
[2011/05/12 07:40] Khannea Suntzu: Thats OK, agnes, but do not make your preference common law ok?
[2011/05/12 07:40] Plot Tracer: khan -

[2011/05/12 07:41] Agnes Sharple: why should i do that?
[2011/05/12 07:41] Khannea Suntzu: Just making sure.
[2011/05/12 07:41] Agnes Sharple: ??

[2011/05/12 07:41] Plot Tracer: why do you prefer to die, Agnes?

[2011/05/12 07:41] Rhiannon Dragoone: "I want to live forever; light up the world like a flame; I want to live forever; baby, remember my name..."
[2011/05/12 07:41] Agnes Sharple: because living forever would be hell i think- a nightmare- my brain wont be able to handle it

[2011/05/12 07:42] Khannea Suntzu: Odd. I think the certainty of death is a nightmare.
[2011/05/12 07:42] Agnes Sharple: neither my emotions

[2011/05/12 07:42] YT Upsilon: I think it would depend on how you live, but I think eventually you might think - so - what next?
[2011/05/12 07:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: Asimov had a character who argued that after 300 years life became really boring; but she was trying to convince short lived people that they had an advantage over her. Agnes, Parfit maintains that; after a while it won't really be you, as you won't have the memories of the earlier self.

[2011/05/12 07:42] YT Upsilon: It would be horrible to live forever if you were the only one.
[2011/05/12 07:43] Rhiannon Dragoone: And if it's not really you, what's the point?
[2011/05/12 07:43] YT Upsilon: You can only take so much loss.
[2011/05/12 07:43] Agnes Sharple: yes, when youve reached the age of 999 I think you’re gonna ask "what next"

[2011/05/12 07:43] Plot Tracer: i am with khan - i understand your point tho agnes - but with everyone living forever - emotions may change - and their results. eg - funerals may become celebrations as people choose to end their lives?

[2011/05/12 07:43] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, that's for sure.
[2011/05/12 07:43] Plot Tracer: i disagree rhia
[2011/05/12 07:43] YT Upsilon: Murder would certainly take on an even more horrific tone.
[2011/05/12 07:43] Rhiannon Dragoone: What would be you about you?
[2011/05/12 07:43] Khannea Suntzu: Right now consistently the happiest people are the oldest people, provided they are healthy and have basic necessities. Aging apparently gives you experience in finding ways to make life work for you. Now combine that experience with the health of youth? I am fairly sure I'll be just fine.

[2011/05/12 07:44] Agnes Sharple: I don’t want to choose to die, i want it to be a surprise lol
[2011/05/12 07:44] Plot Tracer: i think people will remain themselves, but cast off experiences much as we do now. eg - i am in my mid forties - and i look back to my early 20s as well, not something that is me now.
[2011/05/12 07:44] YT Upsilon: LOL Agnes.

[2011/05/12 07:44] Rhiannon Dragoone: Agnes, it almost always is

[2011/05/12 07:44] Plot Tracer: yes yt - re murder
[2011/05/12 07:44] Agnes Sharple: and what about the wisdom that comes when you’re getting older and realizes that life isn’t infinite?
[2011/05/12 07:44] Khannea Suntzu: Well Agnes, don't be surprised if I sneakily keep ruining the surprise by saving you year after year.
[2011/05/12 07:44] Plot Tracer: yes khan re elderly happiness and satisfaction
[2011/05/12 07:44] Rhiannon Dragoone: Plot, perhaps, but what is the basis of that? Ego continuity? What's the ego? Memory continuity? But you won't have a memory link after a while
[2011/05/12 07:45] Rhiannon Dragoone: You will have a survivor, inhabiting your body, but it won't be you
[2011/05/12 07:45] YT Upsilon: I think memory killing pills would have to be invented too.
[2011/05/12 07:45] Josiane Llewellyn: I am not sure that identity and memory have to be the same
[2011/05/12 07:45] Agnes Sharple: I’d have one of those pills!

[2011/05/12 07:45] Plot Tracer: why do u think we would not have memory link, rhia?
[2011/05/12 07:45] Agnes Sharple: memorykillpill!

[2011/05/12 07:46] YT Upsilon: You would accumulate so many experiences that you would want to forget. (BTW - they are on their way to a pharmacist near you.)
[2011/05/12 07:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, it's getting more tenuous as you grow older with three score and ten, but at age 1000?
[2011/05/12 07:46] YT Upsilon: The MKP .
[2011/05/12 07:46] Josiane Llewellyn: If we want to keep memory, keep a video diary
[2011/05/12 07:46] Plot Tracer: and what are bad memories, but learning experiences? perhaps coping mechanisms will change - but i dont think people will choose to cast off knowledge
[2011/05/12 07:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, you would accujulat eso many experience, that you *would* forget--that's my point

[2011/05/12 07:46] YT Upsilon: You haven't watched Dr Who then Plot. ;-)
[2011/05/12 07:47] Plot Tracer: but rhia - i do that now - does that make me less human than i was when i was 18?
[2011/05/12 07:47] Plot Tracer: i am a dr who fan... tha face of bo?
[2011/05/12 07:47] Plot Tracer: :)
[2011/05/12 07:47] YT Upsilon: :-)
[2011/05/12 07:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: Plot, not less human--less you
[2011/05/12 07:47] Plot Tracer: I am less me than I was at 18?
[2011/05/12 07:47] YT Upsilon: (The one with the space whale.)

[2011/05/12 07:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: In other words, it is literally true that you're not the person you used to be
[2011/05/12 07:47] Plot Tracer: kylie yt?
[2011/05/12 07:47] Agnes Sharple: I guess you mean less experienced?
[2011/05/12 07:48] Khannea Suntzu: I agree. There will almost certainly be failure modes when human bodies are made to live far beyond what they neurologies are evolved to be. And then we'll gface that challenge too right?

[2011/05/12 07:48] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, only to a certaiin extent, Plot; but take that and project it across 1000 years
[2011/05/12 07:48] Plot Tracer: i would hope i am not the same person i was at 18
[2011/05/12 07:48] Khannea Suntzu: But there is a far more frightening consideration.
[2011/05/12 07:48] Plot Tracer: i feel i know more now, have more experience of people/ culture etc... and extrapolate that knowledge and self awareness across 1000 years and also to a whole population - how wise would society be! :)

[2011/05/12 07:49] Agnes Sharple: what about reproducing? we need to sterilize all ppl, as well?
[2011/05/12 07:49] Rhiannon Dragoone: Old person smell, only worse, Khannea?
[2011/05/12 07:49] Khannea Suntzu: You all think the world a century from now will be the same in many ways as it is now?
[2011/05/12 07:49] Plot Tracer: Agnes - good question

[2011/05/12 07:49] Agnes Sharple: gosh :(
[2011/05/12 07:49] Khannea Suntzu: I think we are on the verge of far more fundamental changes.
[2011/05/12 07:49] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, we would have to colonize other planets if we did reproduce
[2011/05/12 07:49] Agnes Sharple: that would be Mars
[2011/05/12 07:50] Agnes Sharple: in case
[2011/05/12 07:50] Khannea Suntzu: No, Mars would be a bad choice.
[2011/05/12 07:50] Plot Tracer: i definitely do not think the world or its population would be the same as it is now in 1000 years. if we live forever, i hope we would look back to now as terrible barbaric times...
[2011/05/12 07:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: In the short run, Agnes.

[2011/05/12 07:50] YT Upsilon: Ah - found it.

[2011/05/12 07:50] YT Upsilon:

[2011/05/12 07:50] YT Upsilon: Ref amnesia pill. :)
[2011/05/12 07:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, I don't remember--what's an amnesia pill again? lol
[2011/05/12 07:50] Agnes Sharple: and what about grandkids? i want grandkids!

[2011/05/12 07:51] YT Upsilon: It works!
[2011/05/12 07:51] Agnes Sharple: I don’t want to be a 25 year old grandmother
[2011/05/12 07:51] YT Upsilon: Aww Agnes.
[2011/05/12 07:51] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, lol

[2011/05/12 07:51] Khannea Suntzu: We can construct artificial and quite comfortable worlds from asteroid material. We can construct the equivalent of several thousand earth surfaces of available asteroids, and live there in luxurious conditions far exceeding what we have on a planetary surface. We can *easily* have population growth for centuries.

[2011/05/12 07:51] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, you'll not only have grandkids, Anges, but ever so grand kids
[2011/05/12 07:51] Agnes Sharple: uhm

[2011/05/12 07:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, you mean live literally in space; that'll work, Khannea
[2011/05/12 07:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: ten zillion artificial asteroids floating out there
[2011/05/12 07:52] YT Upsilon: But when we come back, we might not be what left.
[2011/05/12 07:52] Plot Tracer: but Agnes - don’t u think the way we think as family members now, would change after about 50 years? Imagine being physically the same age as your grandkids... perhaps it would put us off from reproducing!

[2011/05/12 07:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: Like the boat people off of Hong Kong, only mega.
[2011/05/12 07:52] Agnes Sharple: whats god in not reproducing?
[2011/05/12 07:52] Plot Tracer: rhia - have u (or anyone else) read the Iain M Banks books?

[2011/05/12 07:53] Rhiannon Dragoone: No, I haven't Plot; What are they about?

[2011/05/12 07:53] Plot Tracer: he writes about a culture in which its citizens live for ever and populate the galaxy - and lots of them live on asteroids/ synthetic planets etc

[2011/05/12 07:53] Khannea Suntzu: Looking at how we treat kids now (like shit) I think we cluld do with a little less reproduction.

[2011/05/12 07:54] Plot Tracer:

[2011/05/12 07:54] Agnes Sharple: we treat children like shit khannea?
[2011/05/12 07:54] YT Upsilon: Alastair Reynolds is good too.
[2011/05/12 07:54] Plot Tracer: would children become more or less better treated in an infinite lifespan?
[2011/05/12 07:54] Agnes Sharple: I don’t know about you, but i don’t
[2011/05/12 07:54] Rhiannon Dragoone: Plot, sounds like fun

[2011/05/12 07:54] Josiane Llewellyn: I've read some of the Iain Banks, the Culture, yeah, I could live like that.

[2011/05/12 07:55] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, there have been a lot of SF or fantasy stories about liviing forever; mostly with vampires, though. Like to see more with hard facts as their background

[2011/05/12 07:55] Khannea Suntzu: Maybe an essential part of development as a human is to feel mortal. Maybe we are there now, in the antstage, and soon we'll be told 'don't worry, you are actually immortal, this was just a phase to teach you something'...

[2011/05/12 07:56] Agnes Sharple: i think you have a point there Khannea, part of it is development because we`re mortal
[2011/05/12 07:56] Agnes Sharple: i mean an essential part
[2011/05/12 07:56] Khannea Suntzu: Scary ride
[2011/05/12 07:56] Josiane Llewellyn: seems more a disease to me, mortality

[2011/05/12 07:56] YT Upsilon: Scary rides are more fun.
[2011/05/12 07:57] YT Upsilon: Better than the Tea Cup ride anyway.
[2011/05/12 07:57] Agnes Sharple: diseases can be good too
[2011/05/12 07:57] Plot Tracer: try Iain M Banks, rhia. he really hits the philosophical and mundane aspects really well

[2011/05/12 07:57] Khannea Suntzu: No I prefer easy river, I kindly thank you for what I got. I refuse this world and all it stands for.
[2011/05/12 07:58] Josiane Llewellyn: If you find a new one, let me know. :)

[2011/05/12 07:58] Merriam Galaxy: I think nano tech has a wide distribution of applications and even what it can do for life extension will not occur fully formed overnight and drop in our laps,
[2011/05/12 07:58] Khannea Suntzu: ...over here... I am just saying in case anyone's listening.
[2011/05/12 07:58] Agnes Sharple: I`ll invite you all to my funeral :P hehe
[2011/05/12 07:58] Plot Tracer: i agree josiane - mortality is a disease imho - and something in my opinion that shows god cannot exist in the form most theistic religions teach
[2011/05/12 07:59] Josiane Llewellyn: I agree there also, Plot. Nano tech could make many differences in life situations too, the economy etc.

[2011/05/12 07:59] Rhiannon Dragoone: Thanks for the suggestion, Plot

[2011/05/12 07:59] YT Upsilon: It's already making a difference.
[2011/05/12 08:00] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, we'll still be mortal, just long lived

[2011/05/12 08:00] Plot Tracer: if god exists, how can he take the wisest from us? How can he play the joke that you learn all this stuff and then it gets lost?
[2011/05/12 08:00] Josiane Llewellyn: No distribution problems if it could be fully developed.
[2011/05/12 08:00] Agnes Sharple: well if god exists, this isn’t the only "ride" we`ll have
[2011/05/12 08:00] YT Upsilon: Who says it gets lost?
[2011/05/12 08:00] Agnes Sharple: according to those who believe in that
[2011/05/12 08:01] YT Upsilon: Maybe it just downloaded into a great big computer, and we're all just bits and bytes gathering data.

[2011/05/12 08:02] Plot Tracer: ok - let’s refocus for the final part of the discussion. Taking in to consideration that perhaps as someone suggested there would be a 50% up take in this immortality, how do you think the social economic sphere would change? Would there be a hierarchy of the aged? would there be flight from the nation state system? Would there be wars over resources? or would an infinite lifespan help people realise we need a more sustainable/ fair system?

[2011/05/12 08:03] Agnes Sharple: i think there will be more and bigger egos
[2011/05/12 08:03] YT Upsilon: He he.
[2011/05/12 08:03] YT Upsilon: An uptake in the X Factor.
[2011/05/12 08:03] YT Upsilon: I think there would be a huge upheaval.
[2011/05/12 08:04] Rhiannon Dragoone: Omg, the whole world resembling Florida.
[2011/05/12 08:04] Agnes Sharple: hahaha
[2011/05/12 08:04] Khannea Suntzu: Well agnes... consider this... people get a little weird when they get old. Thats myelinization of neuron pathways yes? But what if they have the best of both world - the memories of age AND the flexibility of youth?

[2011/05/12 08:04] YT Upsilon: All the young people waiting for their inheritances and getting impatient.
[2011/05/12 08:04] Agnes Sharple: they get weird?

[2011/05/12 08:04] Khannea Suntzu: Nice novel - 'holy fire'/.... read that

[2011/05/12 08:04] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hmmm, assassination of the elderly, Lynne; might become common place
[2011/05/12 08:05] Khannea Suntzu: sorry what group was that?

[2011/05/12 08:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: People get weird when they get old because of social conditioning
[2011/05/12 08:05] YT Upsilon: Well they already have the terms "oxygen thief" ready.
[2011/05/12 08:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: And because they aren't given productive roles
[2011/05/12 08:05] Agnes Sharple: if so, whats wrong with weird?
[2011/05/12 08:05] Rhiannon Dragoone: That doesn't have to be the case

[2011/05/12 08:05] Plot Tracer: so, infinite lifespan would lead to dystopia rather than utopia?

[2011/05/12 08:05] Agnes Sharple: also "weird" is relative
[2011/05/12 08:05] YT Upsilon: Maybe we need a newtopia.
[2011/05/12 08:06] Rhiannon Dragoone: Plot, it would mean that we have to have awareness of the pitfalls, and work to correct them, otherwise, yes

[2011/05/12 08:06] YT Upsilon: I think it would require a whole new way of thinking, about ourselves and our fellow human beings. We'd have to become far less judgemental and more willing to change.

[2011/05/12 08:06] Josiane Llewellyn: Yes you are right, new ways of thinking and planning
[2011/05/12 08:06] Trent Infinity: that seems unlikely

[2011/05/12 08:07] Josiane Llewellyn: If people were given the opportunity for very long lives, they would be motivated differently
[2011/05/12 08:07] YT Upsilon: The interweb thingy is already changing the way we think.
[2011/05/12 08:07] Josiane Llewellyn: and could make use of nano tech in many forms.
[2011/05/12 08:07] YT Upsilon: ;-)

[2011/05/12 08:07] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, the Bible talks of long lived people, and there was a way to accommodate them, in the narrative, anyway; so the new way of thinking may be an old way of thinking.
[2011/05/12 08:07] Rhiannon Dragoone: (No pun intended)

[2011/05/12 08:08] Agnes Sharple: yes Rhiannon, Abraham was like 375 when he had sex with his daughters to reproduce, because God told him to do so :P

[2011/05/12 08:08] YT Upsilon: Could be - but a bit more relaxed than the Old Testament please.
[2011/05/12 08:08] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lynne, I can go with that. lol

[2011/05/12 08:08] Agnes Sharple: jeez
[2011/05/12 08:08] YT Upsilon: Good.
[2011/05/12 08:09] YT Upsilon: It's been fun, nice to debate the big stuff sometimes. On that note I'll leave you with this:-
[2011/05/12 08:09] YT Upsilon:

[2011/05/12 08:09] Agnes Sharple: haha

[2011/05/12 08:09] Rhiannon Dragoone: Agnes, well, hey, God also introduced him to his wife; they like double dated, or something; Thanks, Lynne; tc
[2011/05/12 08:09] Josiane Llewellyn: Need to go now, good discussion, thanks Plot
[2011/05/12 08:09] Khannea Suntzu: I think life extension as an issue is desirable but it is academic. This planet will face a set of transitions far more sweeping than just pople 'living a little longer' in this century.
[2011/05/12 08:10] Rhiannon Dragoone: I think it would be a lot like Florida; no joke intended; Florida is run by old people now

[2011/05/12 08:10] Agnes Sharple: and Disneyland :P
[2011/05/12 08:10] Khannea Suntzu: Again, do read the book "holy fire". \
[2011/05/12 08:10] Khannea Suntzu: Great example
[2011/05/12 08:10] Agnes Sharple: is it sci fi?
[2011/05/12 08:10] Khannea Suntzu: Yes
[2011/05/12 08:10] Agnes Sharple: sorry
[2011/05/12 08:11] Agnes Sharple: god i hate sci fi, it so boring
[2011/05/12 08:11] Rhiannon Dragoone glares at Agnes lol
[2011/05/12 08:11] Khannea Suntzu: This is a nice one :)

[2011/05/12 08:11] Sophiekittycat Resident: there is very good scifi books
[2011/05/12 08:11] Rhiannon Dragoone: Some of us like it, Agness
[2011/05/12 08:11] Agnes Sharple: ive tried a million times, cant help it

[2011/05/12 08:11] Khannea Suntzu:

[2011/05/12 08:11] Sophiekittycat Resident: actually i read honor Harington saga it is excellent :)
[2011/05/12 08:11] Agnes Sharple: yes and thats great
[2011/05/12 08:11] Rhiannon Dragoone: It's ok, but I hear there's a cure coming soon, Agnes
[2011/05/12 08:12] Agnes Sharple: actually Kurt Vonnegut is an exception

[2011/05/12 08:13] Plot Tracer: ok - lets wind down. and sum up. Each of u - make a last paragraph on your thoughts on this. and then we will close...
[2011/05/12 08:13] Plot Tracer: thanks sophie - agnes passed that on to me yesterday

[2011/05/12 08:13] Sophiekittycat Resident: seems that there is not only me for bringing discussions to boiling points ?
[2011/05/12 08:14] Sophiekittycat Resident: it was about nanos ?

[2011/05/12 08:14] Plot Tracer: lol - we have been here for an hour and a quarter - rl beckons sophie!

[2011/05/12 08:15] Sophiekittycat Resident: i will not talk about , i got enougth flesh ripping this week

[2011/05/12 08:16] Khannea Suntzu: I do not want to die. I have things to finish. But there are some states of living I am not willing to consent to. I have experienced pain and distress I'd rather not have. I refer to see what will happen in the future since I think more will happen this century than has happened in the last ten thousand years - but not at any price. I think I have front row seats for the major action, but part of me is really affraid. It won't be an easy ride up the slope.

[2011/05/12 08:16] Agnes Sharple: sd to say, but i dont trust humanity enough to want to live forever or to recommend it, i think there always will be troubles and unfairness and im not sure an infinite life will make it better :)

[2011/05/12 08:17] Sophiekittycat Resident: dont worry the rich will live forever and the poor will have short interesting and painful lives :)

[2011/05/12 08:17] Plot Tracer: ok - my last paragraph. i feel that this would be a welcome development - one that would bring proper equality to the world. i live in an area in scotland with one of the longest lifespans - over 80 which borders on one with one of the lowest - 57 - guess which one is wealthy? I think everlasting life would mean people would become more politically aware of who controls resources and would lead to a revolution of sustainablikty as people realise consumption in the way it is run now, is killing thr planet. without the planet, no nano could keep us alive. i believe it would lead to a utopia stretching far beyond this solar system. :)

[2011/05/12 08:17] Khannea Suntzu: Agnes if you live a few hundred years, be prepared to survive or die in the equivalent of an Auschwitz at least once.

[2011/05/12 08:18] Agnes Sharple: i wont live a few hundred years :)

[2011/05/12 08:18] Second Life: Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.

[2011/05/12 08:19] Agnes Sharple: thats an interesting and beautiful thought Plot

[2011/05/12 08:19] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, oh, we're about to be booted
[2011/05/12 08:19] Plot Tracer: ha - restart. so last paragraphs quickly! :)

[2011/05/12 08:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: When old people rule the world, the world will be ruled by old people
[2011/05/12 08:20] Sophiekittycat Resident: as it have always been :)

[2011/05/12 08:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: Thanks for hosting this, Plot; hope to make it again; depends on whether I wake up before my alarm. lol

[2011/05/12 08:20] Khannea Suntzu: Huh we could be ruled by kids, what do you prefer

[2011/05/12 08:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: Sophies, yes, so maye not so radical a change, after all
[2011/05/12 08:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: Life as we know it; only more of it

[2011/05/12 08:20] Second Life: Your region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
[2011/05/12 08:21] Khannea Suntzu: Bye y'all :)

[2011/05/12 08:21] Agnes Sharple: k, everyone, thanks for a great discussion :))

[2011/05/12 08:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: I feel like I'll will be reborn in 3 min.
[2011/05/12 08:21] Sophiekittycat Resident: we have one life ? it is normal we want to make it last as we can no ?

[2011/05/12 08:21] Agnes Sharple: be happy and safe!

[2011/05/12 08:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks for sharing, Agnes

[2011/05/12 08:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm going to stay and see where I get sent to. For fun
[2011/05/12 08:21] Plot Tracer: ok - cool - lets wrap up there then. see u all next week! :)
[2011/05/12 08:22] Agnes Sharple: and have a awesome infinite life, those of you going for it :))
[2011/05/12 08:22] Plot Tracer: i will! :)

[2011/05/12 08:22] Agnes Sharple: yay
[2011/05/12 08:22] Ataraxia Azemus: I'll go down with the ship, since I was so late....but take care, guys :)
[2011/05/12 08:22] Agnes Sharple: be good

[2011/05/12 08:22] Rhiannon Dragoone: tc Violet

[2011/05/12 08:23] Second Life: Your region will restart in 1 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.

[2011/05/12 08:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: I'm always interested in where the boot sends me

[2011/05/12 08:23] Second Life: Your region will restart in 0 minutes and 30 seconds for maintenance.

[2011/05/12 08:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: count down, 30, 29, 28...
[2011/05/12 08:23] Plot Tracer: bye!!!!
[2011/05/12 08:23] Disconnected from in-world Voice Chat

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